Interview by: Audrey Vanessa Noukeu Petnguen

Interview with: Elizabeth Horlemann

Themes: Intersectionality, Afro-German identity, anti-racism, disability, decolonization

Audrey Vanessa Noukeu Petnguen: Today, with me, Elizabeth Horlemann, who lives here in Germany. Elizabeth, I’ll give you the opportunity to present yourself.

Elizabeth Horlemann: Good morning, everyone, and those who will be listening. First of all, thank you very much, Audrey, for inviting me and allowing me to be part of this platform. I’m very honoured. I’ve learned a lot about the Black Academy, and thank you to everyone behind it who is making this happen. We need more such platforms. My name is Elizabeth Horlemann. I was born and raised in Kenya and came to Germany as a young adult. I am now a mother to one child, and my son is 37 years old. I recently lost my husband, and I’ve been living here in Germany for over 30 years. I am a trainer; I train trainers and I also work as an activist fighting racism and bringing awareness to our societies. I’m a strategist when it comes to intersectionality. I recently founded the organization EquiAble, also known as Equially Able. It’s an organization for Black, Indigenous, and People of Colour (BIPOC) living with disabilities, their caregivers, and their friends and families. We need a space to exchange our trials and tribulations, joys, and sadness in one place. I also promote African entrepreneurship with an Afrocentric focus. I recently published a book based on my personal experiences, sharing insights on ableism, racism, and grief. This combination can bring significant trauma to those who experience it. That is Elizabeth Horlemann.

Audrey Vanessa Noukeu Petnguen: Thank you very much. Let’s start with your work as an anti-racist trainer focusing on gender, race, disability and intersectionality. How do these categories interact to shape unique experiences? Why is it important to consider intersectionality in anti-racism work?

Elizabeth Horlemann: A lot is being spoken about racism, but not much about the intersection with ableism. These intersections are not very present in Germany or globally. People assume that once we talk about disability, all the needs of disabled people are met as a homogeneous group. However, a white disabled person might experience discrimination but still have privileges that a Black disabled person is denied. These intersections need to be addressed in depth. In 2021, I realized how society perceives a Black woman in a wheelchair, married to a white person. This challenge prompted me to write the book and create a network to address these issues. We are not visible, and people often find themselves in a transitional period with their disability. This is yet another challenge — accepting oneself and dealing with ableism and racism simultaneously, and I would like to highlight that there are only a few studies that talk about the experience of a disabled Black person facing both ableism and racism.

Audrey Vanessa Noukeu Petnguen: Nowadays, much is talked about diversity, equity, and inclusion. Sometimes it feels like certain experiences are watered down. What steps do you think need to be taken to ensure that intersectionality is effectively included in anti-racism and diversity work?

Elizabeth Horlemann: It’s a complex issue and a question that has preoccupied my mind. We cannot fight on two fronts simultaneously. We need to define ableism experienced in the dominant (white) society and within our own communities. In our communities, we must acknowledge ableism and address the language and perceptions used. For example, offensive terms come out easily without reflection. We need to start with ourselves. If there are no disabled people at your events, find out why. As Bell Hooks said in her book “From Margin to Center,” we must move from the margins to the center. The dominant society must also recognize that placing a white disabled person does not represent BIPOC disabled persons. This lack of representation affects everything, from materials to social tools necessary for different communities. 

Audrey Vanessa Noukeu Petnguen: Thank you very much. Let’s discuss your role in empowering young people in Germany, especially in view of  the rise of the AfD and concepts like remigration. What challenges do you foresee for young Afro-Germans in this context? In your view, who is an Afro-German?

Elizabeth Horlemann: The definition of Afro-German is complex. Not everyone identifies as Afro-German. Many Black people I’ve met call themselves Germans. Afro-Germans are often those who came from the continent and identify with it but also hold German citizenship. On the other hand, Black Germans, often born here, identify politically with their blackness due to structural racism and the unique needs of Black People. This distinction creates different identities: Afro-Germans who maintain a connection to the African continent and Black Germans who primarily identify with the experiences and struggles within Germany. For instance, I have a German passport but still feel deeply connected to my motherland. Children born here who may not have visited the continent often find themselves in a limbo, struggling to belong. They are told they don’t belong to either the “curtain” (Germany) or the “carpet” (Africa), leading them to create their own identity and community. My son, for example, identifies more with Germany while recognizing his roots in the continent. The German society must understand that being Black in Germany dates back to the 1600s when the philosopher Anton Wilhelm Amo was brought here by King Wilhelm. This history means that Black people have been part of German society for centuries, not just recently. The current discussion about forced re-immigration is an attempt by the dominant society to solve perceived problems by targeting certain groups. This re-immigration concept is a new form of ideology used to justify political strategies aimed at appeasing certain voters. It’s crucial to recognize this polarization and the historical context of Black presence in Germany to fight for rightful representation and inclusion.

Audrey Vanessa Noukeu Petnguen: It seems more complex with racism, with a conflict between being German and African. How can young Afro-Germans combine these identities? What advice do you have for Afro-Germans in terms of building their identity?

Elizabeth Horlemann: For me, the first step is to decolonize the mind. These identity issues arise from internalized beliefs and societal pressures, leading people to feel torn between being German or African. Many feel the need to align themselves closer to whiteness to justify their identity and negate what society sees as inferior.

The most important thing is to reflect on what being Black means to you personally, independent of others’ opinions. This journey of decolonizing the mind starts with self-acceptance, both externally and internally. When you accept both parts of your identity, external opinions become less impactful – you can view them as bonuses or discounts.

You don’t need anyone’s validation to be considered German. What defines a German? Many things, but never skin colour. Skin colour is a construct, a racial concept introduced by Immanuel Kant to justify the dehumanization of others for the benefit of a select group. It wasn’t until Christopher Columbus’s time that white people realized there was a concept of being white.

Encouraging self-acceptance, I tell people to start by loving themselves. You cannot have anyone love you more than you love yourself. It begins from the outside and moves inward. External opinions become optional. Skin colour is not a biological advantage or disadvantage; it is a social construct.

Young people need to recognize their right to representation. If skin colour is a construct, then they have the right to see people who look like them on TV and in books. Their existence is valid, and history cannot be whitewashed to erase this. Many young people I know are fighting for their rightful place in society, asserting their identities, and demanding to be seen and understood as they are.

Audrey Vanessa Noukeu Petnguen: Thank you for your insights. And to end, could you share a significant date in your life where you realized something important, either personally or in your work?

Elizabeth Horlemann: I’m going to say that April 9, 2021, was one of the worst days of my life. It was the day I was confronted with what it means to lose a partner in the diaspora and what it means to lose your best friend. During this time, I was surrounded by oppressive circumstances that did not allow me the chance to truly understand and process my grief and loss. Everyone else was coming in with their own issues, and it felt so unnecessary. This robbed me of the chance to go through this transition, which is a natural part of the end of life.

When someone’s life ends, it’s a time to learn how to move forward, but I wasn’t able to do that because I was constantly preoccupied. That’s what racism does — it keeps you preoccupied with everything else but what is truly important. So, April 9, 2021, is a day that changed everything for me. There are many other significant events in my life, but nothing can compare to this.

Audrey Vanessa Noukeu Petnguen: It must have been a very dark time for you, but also an empowering one. Could we say this experience prompted you to write the book and share these views that many might not have been aware of?

Elizabeth Horlemann: I was just annoyed. I was annoyed, and I was very frustrated. So, the book was actually not written out of necessity at that point in time. I had no idea that this is what people go through and have never spoken about. It’s just that there is no room for Black people to look for a Black therapist. At my age, I lean a lot on the traditions of how I would have liked the death of my husband to be accompanied with traditionnally -; let’s say, the traditions coming from my ethnia back home in Kenya. You’re not going through it alone but with a community. And this was also denied. The combination of all these frustrations made me write the book out of anger. So, the book actually comes from a place of anger. However, I’m really grateful to Valerie, who helped with the editing, because she found that the book had… boxing gloves. I was really boxing — literally — each and every place where I was confronted with racism, ableism, and grief. All this, coupled together, made me write the book. Valerie was keen on providing advice on creating fictional names and professions to real-life characters who perpetrated racist threats, and this was fundamental in evading legal charges. She brought me out of there and made me realize I had a tool in my hand — as she did research and found out there was no book out there that spoke what I spoke and how I spoke it. Very personal. The book is very personal! You are going to go through my life and see how I navigated each and every phase of it without sometimes giving you any conclusions or solutions on what could be done better or how it should have happened simply because I had none. I had no solutions at that time!

Audrey Vanessa Noukeu Petnguen: Thank you for sharing your experiences and insights. It’s important to listen to personal stories to understand different perspectives and work towards more diversity-friendly behaviours. Thank you for your time and this interesting discussion.

Elizabeth Horlemann:  Thank you very much.

Author:  Elizabeth Horlemann- Not Now Please: Living through Racism, Ableism, and Grief